Recruiters like you!!!!

[Elizabeth Smith]

I got a message from Craig telling me Ning might be a better forum for my questions, so here goes:

I am a sourcer for Avery Dennison. And, my newest task is to find
recruiters/talent managers for our company in the supply chain and
finance areas.

Now, I have to say that the reason I joined Avery Dennison is that
they truly have a culture of relationship building and teamwork.
There is no competition, metrics are NOT the only measure of success,
and the talent managers love working with sourcers and see them as
true teammates. We are still working on the process, but the company
is truly one of ethics and integrity and like I said--relationships.

So, in looking for recruiters for our company, I have misgivings about
sourcing into top finance firms or staffing firms because I understand
that while recruiters may say they are team players, I have worked
with some who are quite the opposite. Let me put it this way. My
boss would turn down the opportunity to interview THE top performing
recruiter in the industry if that person was not willing to be open,
honest and forthcoming with the team. There is just no doubt about
it.

Can you tell me if this is something that this group might respond to.
There is a reason why so many individuals become independent
recruiters--good and bad reasons, I suppose.

But, I really want to find the right people to join our team, so I am
not approaching this as the usual sourcing project. Infact, I asked
my boss not to even post on ERE or SHRM until I can feel out what the
experts (like you) might have to say on the subject.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks much,
Elizabeth Smith
Research Analyst
Avery Dennison
[e-mail]

[Andrew Stock]

Elizabeth,
I've interviewed, hired and trained a lot of recruiters over the years; all in a staffing firm environment. I would have to say that probably a quarter of these folks have ended up becoming internal/corporate recruiters, or at the least, contract/hourly recruiters. So, evidently, staffing firms are a very fertile ground to train the types of folks you're looking to bring on your staff.

Yes, there are certainly 'agency' recruiters out there that are more aggressive sales people that aren't going to fit into your company culture as I have perceived it from your post here. But on the other hand, I think you'll find that there are a wealth of staffing professionals that went to an agency as an entry foray into the industry, only to find later that they disliked cold calling or 'selling' in general (which is what most staffing agency jobs really are).

So, in my humble opinion, I think it would be crazy NOT to look for your next hire out of a staffing agency. In fact, I'd even recommend that this is where you start! Personally, I'd focus my efforts on contract staffing agencies since they tend to separate 'account managers' (aka: sales people who get clients) from 'recruiters' (people who find candidates) as two different roles. Companies that do only direct hire (aka 'perm') placements tend to have all 'recruiters' doing both sides of the desk rather than splitting the roles between two different people. I'm not saying you won't find a 'perm' recruiter out there that's perfect for you...I just think you're more likely to find what you seek from agencies who focus on contract placements.

Hope this helps!

-Andrew


____________________________________________________________________
Andrew Stock
Director, Sales and Marketing
HireAbility.com
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Staffing professionals: HireAbility can likely save you thousands of dollars per year. www.hireability.com/recruiter-network/&referer=http%3A//www.hir..."">Click here" to ask a HireAbility representative how!

[Yvonne LaRose]

[at this moment, my blood pressure is super high because my laptop is doing interesting things such as spontaneously going back *5* pages while I was writing this post. The original content is gone. -- resuming]

I find it interesting that merely one-quarter of the people that Andrew has encountered in this industry have worked out and made it at corporate recruiting. It makes me wonder what that says about the other three-quarters and whether that means they simply were not the right fit for this industry, not the right fit for being team players, not the right fit for ethical practices.

Like you, Elizabeth, I'm finding there are a lot of people who call themselves recruiters and do things that make them a disgrace as *any* type of employee. But the field seems to be rife with them and sparse on the ones who have well-grounded self esteem and maturity. There was one networking meeting where I met a young woman who spoke of "her domain name" that she wanted to preserve. The trouble with "her domain name" was that someone else had purchased it and held that name for some time. Instead of thinking of an alternative name, her design was to pirate the name from the holder.

There are many others in this industry who feel they need to engrace themselves with one who is doing and seeking others to help build. Then the truth of the "relationship" is revealed when the friend somehow discloses that they not only admire the project, they want ownership of it. Their purported allegiance was that of a self-spy in order to learn the weak points, how the project was done up to that point, and whatever else they can siphon off of the well-intentioned builder.

In the 8 years that I've been in this industry, I've become extremely cynical. I don't give my trust as readily as before. And I'm not willing to maintain associations as long when I discover the surreptitious nature of the relationship. I guess that means I'd fire the ones who proved to be not team players in some fashion. Spying would be an automatic, no further questions asked (except how much have you stolen and where did you sell it) except "how fast can I get you to the door?"

It means taking each person on face value each day as a new day to see whether it is consistent with yesterday. If it is not, then there's not much need for the association.

As to sourcing from another company or from the direct competitor, I've not made a concrete decision there. I keep asking, "What is the industry standard? What is the norm? Is it ethical?" No one has answered these questions. But as time passes, it appears duplicity is the community standard and those who sway from that are the ones who do not survive very well.

It's good to know that Avery is there and that it has survived based on good principles that it seeks in its personnel -- will not tolerate anything except.

I've watched some of those who have become independents who do a lot of writing in other venues. One of the things I've particularly noticed about these independents is that they are not team players and never were. Their only focus is self gratification and survival of self. All else is not important. Some are quite argumentative but their arguments are a lot of hot air based on little fact or education. And that seems to be the other commonality -- not as much education as those who are high on the EQ scale. Since they find it impossible to blend into an environment (instead, some find it necessary to create confusion and dissention due to various forms of jealousy, envy, insecurity, need to be seen, need to be seen as outstanding) and maintain healthy relationships, they go out on their own or are asked to do so rather than allow the wholesale damage to the existing culture.

These are my candid observations and assessments. I wish you well.

[UMS Healthcare]

The reasons why some recruiters become independents are many. The thing I hear most often is to gain flexibility in their schedule to allow for things like family. Another biggie is compensation and the desire to make more income without having to work more hours. Many agencies pay out 20% -60% in commission but do not offer much in the way of training, leadership, tools, technology, or benefits. Others leave to go out on their own to build equity in a business. None of the reasons mentioned above would make anyone a poor team player. Like any other group of individuals some play well with others while some don't.

Recruiters in perm groups on the agency side do often live in a shark tank so they can get a little bit nervous in how they operate. Independent recriters who are successful would not think about going back to corp. or agency jobs unless they were just plain old lonely but those who are struggling may jump at new opportunities in a heartbeat.

I like hiring recruiters who fit my culture and profile but training them on the way I like to do things. My preference is less on experience and more on fit, potential, diversity, goal orientation, attitude, etc...

Happy hunting.

Craig Silverman
HireAbility.com